Smoking Mirror
Secret Interests Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.01 00:25:00 -
[1]
My two favorite things in this thread are
1. The way people are letting a criminal hacker and obvious bad character play them with his ginned up crap.
2. The hypocritical righteous indignation of people like Goonswarm(!) who not only systematically abused the Eve client (and why weren't there mass bannings for that?), but who repeatedly engage in "black ops" campaigns of dubious legality of their own against whoever, using both in-game and out-of-game resources.
The illiterate and confused XirtamVOTF posts are third. Pathetic certainly, but not really interesting enough to make the cut.
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Smoking Mirror
Secret Interests Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.01 00:38:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Nekumi
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Originally by: Nekumi
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 31/01/2007 23:43:57
Galea Wildfang, anything the devs don't do is basically blocking off that area from the proper dev attention. Neglecting the social aspects of Eve need would be as bad as neglecting combat in that respect. And again, playing with specific goals skewes the results from the actual experience. You need dev PLAYERS, not observers.
You cannot tell from second hand experience what's really going on. Software development 101 again.
Scree, nah, I'm just gonna laugh at you frankly.
This is bull. Testing something does not require someone to be involved in every single case. If the devs want to play because they enjoy the game fine but saying they need to because Software Development 101 is utter crud.
They aren't idiots, inferrences can be made, models can be constructed, test rigs can be built. That's how software engineers work. Engineers don't just work off direct experimentation and there is nothing I have ever seen in this game that lends itself to a necessity for direct involvement in the game from a development point of view.
So let's drop this line of crud where it is shall we.
How about the fact they want to enjoy a game they've put hundreds/thousands/tens of thousands of hours into?
What's next, will players demand that ISD not be allowed to play either?
All MMOs are played by their GMs and Devs. Anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong, and anyone who demands that they not play the game, is insane.
I never demanded a single thing. I'm merely pointing out that people saying that developers need to play the game live on Tranquility with everyone else in order to develop it are completely and utterly wrong.
I will say this again because you seem to like ignoring it. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH DEVELOPERS PLAYING THE GAME BECAUSE THEY ENJOY IT. Just don't feed me bull about them having to, because they don't.
Completely, utterly wrong. Wrong in practice, wrong in theory. Wrong in every possible way.
It is absolutely essential that the developer of any product make whatever effort he can to get whatever familiarity is possible with all aspects of the working of his product. Some of that you can do that in models, rigs, simulations, etc., but definitely not all. In a former life, I was an engineer for a huge software company making a product most people are familiar with. At some point, you have to USE it in real-time, real-life situations. Code testing and black-box simulation only takes you so far. The proof of it is, EVERY GAME COMPANY HAS DEVELOPERS PLAYING THE GAME IN LIVE SITUATIONS. I guarantee you that's true.
I'd be annoyed as a manager if my people weren't playing, because I'd then worry that small yet important things weren't being seen to.
It's true that they can't have positions of great responsibility. I know a guy who was the head of a major guild on an EQ1 server, who ended up getting hired by SOE as a product development manager. He didn't continue running his guild, but he certainly played. He had to. These games are so large, and so complex, you can't work with them abstractly. You have to get IN them in order to understand what the real issues are.
If there's real abuse of power, that's one thing. But mostly I just see ignorance, hypocrisy and the usual feeding frenzy here.
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